When educated Indians think like this….

February 3, 2009 at 11:04 pm 24 comments

We seriously have no hope.  I found this comment by “Smitha” on Great Bong’s post. While MM did not fall for her bait with , I did.  So here it  goes, with my replies in Bold

An interesting post. Some politically-incorrect observations from this twenty-something, employed, married woman from Karnataka shouldn’t be out of place then.
You forgot regressive and sexist

When it’s fashionable to publicly praise the emperor’s new clothes and promote women’s empowerment through drinking alcohol, I will refrain from doing so.

I have seen the videos on TV and read the news articles and will try to list my thoughts on this issue, as best as I can –

– I am glad that the Karnataka police swung into action and arrested the SRS members. They dared to break the law and will pay for it.

– Nobody should force anybody to leave pubs, if they are of the legal drinking age. If you SRS-wallahs want to oppose drinking, use Gandhi-giri or protest peacefully outside the pubs but don’t touch anyone. If these youngsters want to get drunk everyday, then so be it. After all, the right to drink is a fundamental right, right?
Exactly

– Those who imbibe the spirits too liberally could end up having health issues, automobile accidents or just get pregnant. So what? It’s their problem, not yours.
Exactly – just like people who choose to carry cellphones in their pockets and get their nuts nuked. You don’t beat up people because they are risking getting sterile, do you?

– In the videos, I observed that the SRS members walked into the pub and asked everyone there to leave the pub. Though the audio is not clear, it appears that there is some heated arguments and then some pub-goers appear to shoot off their mouths and tell these SRS lads to mind their own business (in a not-so-polite words?). The melee begins.
The SRS members were ofcourse intellectually challeneged to
1. Go into a private property and ask everyone to get out
2. Reply back in kind (verbally) to the people who badmouthed them for no 1

So they did they only thing they knew – start beating people.

– I also observed that the pub-goers (who were chased out or slapped) included both men and women. While it is a case of assault (and should be prosecuted thus), I don’t understand why the media is trying portray this as a “guys slapped only girls” issue. Liars !
Because the main target WERE women. They did not mind guys going to pubs, just the girls. Because as you know, we Bharatiya naris are the protectors of Indian culture. Men can saunter off and do whatever they want

– The media kept trying to portray this as a sexual molestation/groping incident and kept harping that some girls were molested in front of the camera. But after the confrontation, the videos show the pub-goers sitting on the floor or show the running pub-goers getting taps/slaps on the back of their heads as they exit the pub. Is all this talk of sexual molestation/groping is the media’s attempt to add “spice” to the story?
Lady, please get your hair dragged by a stranger in a public place while he is uttering profanities at you and gropes at you because he can get away with it. Just because you were there. And then tell me you were not sexually harassed.

– In the videos, SRS members appear to be college-going students of modest, lower middle-class means. Some SRS members carried backpacks (used to carry books) which means that they were either going to or coming from a nearby college. Were they ticked off that while they were off to studiously attend college classes on Saturdays, some of their elitist, rich peers were out there drinking, dancing, having fun? Such kill-joys.
You know, I was a middle class student too. And I had a few rich classmates. I was taught better than to go pull the hair of girls wearing expensive clothes or boys riding expensive bikes. And since when has being rich and enjoying life become a crime. For all you know, they are rich because they had the brains and worked hard. And they were taking a well deserved break, not in the college campus, but at a pub. Did they disrupt any classes? No. Did they block traffic? No.

– Would the media have made a big hue and cry if some women activists had slapped the girls in the pub? In 1996, the media were hesitantly sympathetic when stick-wielding and broom-wielding, screaming women activists trashed Miss World billboards and tried to attack the Miss World contest venue in my home-state.
Would you let anyone slap you? Male or female? And the fact is, it was not woman activists who slapped people here. I believe they were off dealing with more serious issues like malnutrition, dowry, and equal rights. And the people protesting miss World DID NOT slap anyone. And I still disapprove of them too.

This is where the SRS members erred in their radical calculations – if they had brought along some of their sisters and mothers to slap the girls in the pub, then nobody would have believed this “men slap girls”/”gender-based assault” story.

– Those who use the word “Taliban” indiscriminately or given to hyperbole should know that if these Mangalore lads had been “Taliban”, then some heads would have rolled in that pub, all the pub-goers would have been beheaded and their heads put on a stake.

A slap is the same as a beheading? Then how many of us are guilty of beheading (oops ..I meant hitting or slapping), someone?

Some of us don’t have the guts to call the murderous Mumbai attackers with the same appellation. So, let’s just vent our frustration on the little guys that won’t come after you or slit our throats.

Calling these SRS gadflies as “Taliban” is the height of exaggeration.

No, calling them Taliban is not an exaggeration. Taliban’s hallmark is to go after people who disagree with them and their style of life. In civilized societies, and especially democracies, we resolve conflict through logical discussions and votes. And we uphold a person’s liberty and choice of life as long as it is in the legal boundaries established by the country for law and order. In a democracy, I may not agree with you, but I will uphold your right to keep your views. And I don’t know how many people you have slapped, but people like me usually keep it to a bare minimum. Slapper Smitha…now that is a cool title.

– “5th standard dropout”? The condescending, elitist tone adopted by the writer (Mr.Johnson T.A.) towards someone (who was not as privileged or educated as he is), is to be expected.
Yeah, calling out these road romeos who do not know how to use their time more constructively is elitist..heh.

– If the SRS wanted to get widespread publicity for their group through such gimmicks, then they have succeeded.
This is the only thing I will agree with you

– If the SRS wanted to make this drinking problem (amongst youngsters) the subject of discussion in everyone’s homes, offices and colleges, then they have succeeded.
People of legal drinkable age enjoying a drink with their peers is now suddenly a drinking problem?? Girl..looks like you are one of those people who gets talli on one glass of wine…

– Indian middle-class parents implicitly trust their children to not lie to them or sneak out to pubs. Because of this one incident, most middle-class parents have woken up to the possibility of their children frequenting pubs during the day or night, while giving alibis of going to college or working late in their IT/BPO jobs. These Nazi-like parents are now going to give deadlines and are going to keep a close eye on their truant children. Shame on these parents !
Seriously, if your kid is lying to you, you need to reanalyze the parent-child relationship you have. Not close down pubs. What will you do next? Close down schools because your kid lied to you about the report card? And if a parent needs a news channel to realize that their kid is not toeing the line, then I believe they are not doing a good job of parenting anyways. Parents who seriously belive that their 18-19 year olds don’t know anything about sex and will never every try alcohol live in a well or in Ramayana. Your pick.

– If drinking in pubs is the birthright of every Indian, then why do pub-goers hide this fact from their parents and families? Is it shameful to drink? Is it wrong to drink? Then why do pub-goers never tell their parents the truth – “I’m off to the pub to drink. See you after midnight”. Hypocrites !
Lying to your own parents is a personal issue, and depends on the relation you have with your parents. Why don’t you catch every other person who lies to someone, especially the politicians who lie to so many people and beat them up. Why only pub goers?

– How many of us hypocrites who would be proud of our mother, if our mother wore miniskirts/tight-jeans and went to pubs? Common, be honest – just visualize your mother wearing miniskirts and guzzling frothy mugs of beer. The reason why our generation turned out good was because our mothers (and fathers) were stellar role-models for us.
Ok, I may not like my mom in a mini-skirt because I believe her body type does not suit it. But she totally rocks the jeans-and-kurta look and I am proud of her. I am proud that I can introduce her to my friends without worrying that either party will get bored. I am proud that I can talk to her about current issues, not just how to make coconut chutney. And I am proud that she has such awesome taste in clothes that the sexy tops she picks for me are absolutely gorgeous. And I would be proud of her if she decided to wear unconventional clothes, because that does not change the fact that she is a great mom. I know moms who guzzle beer, and they are more fun to be with than the aunty kinds who keep asking me why I don’t wear my mangalsutra.

– As a parent I wonder, can pub-goers be good role-models for their children? In particular, would a pub-going girl be a good role-model for her unborn children? Yes, nobody likes to think of getting married or having kids, but just wait – “(Sh)it happens”.
I am a pub goer. So is my friend who is a new mom. And she is one amazing mother. And this is where your sexist outlook comes through. Ofcourse, pub going men can be just as good role models right??

– I am trying to imagine the future of pub-going youngsters – post marriage. I don’t think it’s easy for anyone to stop drinking – first socially, then habitually. A drinker as a father is bad enough for the family. But a drinking mom? Can you imagine what that would do to the Indian families?
I drink. I go to pubs. But you will rarely see me getting drunk and making a fool of myself. My dad drinks occasionally. I have never ever seen him make a fool of himself either. It is called self-control. Even if you eat too much brinjal, it is not good for your health–Just like alcohol. Oh..and here is the clincher for you – my husband does not drink, and he does not believe in restricting me. One truly democratic guy I have married!

– I am proud that the Indian family system is a success primarily because of Indian women and our sacrifices and the values we impart to our children.
So father is just sperm donor? I am proud of my family because BOTH my mother and father gave us their best values. I am proud of my husband because he does his share of domestic chores. So that we can have a well balenced family. Not one repressed woman who is put up on the Bharatiya nari pedestal to shut her up.

– I feel sorry for the increasing-decadent, broken social system in the West (that we are trying to copy mindlessly) with one-third of all pregnancies being of teenaged, unmarried girls – where the boys/men are highly irresponsible and like to sow their oats and impregnate women without taking any responsibility for raising the children born out-of-wedlock.
You know, India has the highest population growth. And it does not happen because all girls marry after the age of 18 and have babies legally. What is worse is such extra-marital relations are shunned in our country, so women resort to other means to terminate pregnancies and even die doing so while the men get away scot free without any sense of responsibility. A woman in the west can have a baby without getting married and hold her head high and raise a normal child. Our glorified Indian culture does not let even unborn female foetuses survive. I see a West where I can walk on the streets at any time of the day without being called names, without anyone questioning me on what I wear. I see a western culture where fathers also do diaper duties for the infants so that the new mom can catch some sleep. I see a Western culture were the “oat sowing” is mutually consentous and without regrets. I see….wait a minute, have you ever lived in the West? No? I thought so.

And thanks to such selfish/irresponsible men, many women in the west are just reduced to being “merchandise” who have to give out free “samples” to attract potential mates. Should our Indian society disintegrate in such a way?
Women in the west are the last people to be considered merchandise. Even the ones who work in obvious objectification industries like porn. They are still respected  people of the society and live on their own terms, as compared to India where daughters are sold with dowry to suitable men. I think you are getting the Indian and Western society confused.

– Going to Pubs lead to Women’s Empowerment ? Since when? I hope someone can enlighten me. Because I must have missed out on all those Women’s Empowerment seminars in my college.
I think that is primarily because you hung out with a bunch of boring auntijis at college. Seriously, a simple thing as going to pubs is empowerment for Indian women because
1. They are repeatedly prevented from going there because they are women
2. Pubs are considered hangouts for men only by neanderthals like SRS

– I can see why the media is ticked off. These shallow journalists often appear to be in the same demographic as these pub-goers in Mangalore. No wonder, the media has jumped with a vengeance and focused the spotlight on a trivial, yes trivial, incident like Mangalore.
You are right, the journalists are in the same demographics as the pub goers. Both believe in a democratic India that does not differentiate based on sex and one that upholds personal liberties. Only stupid people can call an incident like this trivial. Any violation of my personal space by uninvited intruders is a serious offence for me as an individual. Individualality – something that you have forgotten because your family has made you the sacrificial lamb to uphold “Indian” culture and teach it to your children

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Entry filed under: Random Banter.

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24 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Ameya Hate  |  February 4, 2009 at 1:05 am

    Thats a great response. And it is even better when you give a girls point of view. “So father is just sperm donor?”: A brilliant response!
    Don’t lose hope about the future though. This is like the reality show “Survivor”; we are going to Outlive and Outlast the bigots.

  • 2. La Vida Loca  |  February 4, 2009 at 1:27 am

    Agree w/ you on every point. And Smitha aunty sounds more like sixty something. No wait, I know some sixty somethings who are more progressive than that :):P

  • 3. La Vida Loca  |  February 4, 2009 at 1:45 am

    About the original article- I dont know where to start screaming and crying from.
    Older couples dont kiss- bidi is smoother than the old hag’s lips, if they do they are not married to each other? Huh?

    girls should be making chappatis not pubbing

    oohhhh gooooooooddddddddddddddd

    Clueless: Why Chapathis? It is not South Indian no….all Punjabi and north Indian. Girls should actually be learning how to keep rice…
    And now, they are issuing memorandums that girls should not wear noodle straps in Mangalore! No respect for Indian culture only, they should be calling it vermicelli straps.
    If I am not making sense, its probably because my brain is fried trying to understand their logic

  • 4. Biswajit  |  February 4, 2009 at 2:20 am

    I followed this link from GB’s blog and to say the least i was not disappointed…this is the kind of response needed for such stupid theories of moral policing and western vs indian culture…great job..would love to hear more from you

  • 5. Allytude  |  February 4, 2009 at 3:37 am

    That is exactly the kind of response that bigoted writing deserved. Unfortunately the person writing it already has a head so stuffed with preconceptions that the wisdom in your words is not too likely to percolate.
    Good job too- from another pub going “western viewed” person. And the “sperm donor” bit awesome!

  • 6. Serendipity  |  February 4, 2009 at 4:55 am

    Landed here through GreatBong’s blog.
    Yeah, that Smita lady is probably a SRS spokesperson masquerading as a new age Bhartiya Nari.
    Full BS!
    You write well…subscribing to your blogs 🙂

  • 7. Dhananjay  |  February 4, 2009 at 5:11 am

    Thanks for writing this piece.

  • 8. Rajaram  |  February 4, 2009 at 6:41 am

    I followed this link from GB’s post..

    Great reply.. All the hope is not lost.. 🙂
    Shall keep track of ur blog from now on..

  • 9. Prateek  |  February 4, 2009 at 7:28 am

    Thanks, Great reply/post.
    I think next time when someone slaps Smitha aunty at movie/mall, it will be KARMA at work.

    Clueless: LOL indeed!

  • 10. DewdropDream  |  February 4, 2009 at 9:50 am

    Great post! I’ll need to organize my thoughts to say something a little more coherent.

    I do wonder about one thing though… the media does tend to add some masala… trp ratings and readership counts and all that jazz you know. This definitely is an outrageous incident… but I’m curious to know what kind of game the media played with it. If at all I mean. Might gather my thoughts and post, will link up to you if I do. Do keep writing… you’re good!

    Clueless: The media, I believe has played the role of a dalal, selling away their duties as citizens for some sensational story telling. It seems that the media knew about the attacks before hand and just showed up with a camera instead of informing the police.

    But look at those videos! Media or not, I would be appalled. And scared.

  • 11. Anna Bond  |  February 4, 2009 at 4:32 pm

    You have offended the SRS gods by replying to Smitha in such a way. She’s actually a spy of theirs doing moral policing on blogs.

    Clueless: I am glad I am not a Mangalore resident then! :p

  • 12. DewdropDream  |  February 4, 2009 at 10:35 pm

    Apalled and scared I am for sure. This kind of stuff is exactly what keeps me from wanting to go back to India … Whatever anyone might make of that statement.

    Psst, Slapper Smitha Aunty will come after you whether she belongs to that crap sena or not. You’re calling such a traditional morally-sound woman like her promiscuous and all ya… gasp! 😀

  • 13. Nita  |  February 5, 2009 at 6:20 am

    Was I relieved reading this. Reading that comment on Great Bong’s blog dismayed me. Although I can’t say I was surprised because a lot of Indians equate drinking and western clothes with evil. They have no idea what social drinking is. And what I found most shocking about Smitha’s comment was her comment that moms wearing jeans, skirts and those who drink are something that people are ashamed of! I was absolutely shocked because I am a mom of two young women and they are so proud of me because I wear western clothes (including skirts) and yeah, drink beer and wine too! My husband never drinks unless he offers me one and same goes for my dad and my uncles. All my aunts have a drink once in a while and I can tell you that they are great moms, have wonderful relationships with their kids and their kids are proud of them. As for those kids who are ashamed of their moms expressing themselves, shame on those kids and teenagers.

  • 14. HERAMB  |  February 5, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    Gr8 that you replied this Smitha …. followed this frm Gb’s replies…nicely “SLAPPED” back….

  • 15. Sakshi  |  February 5, 2009 at 4:04 pm

    AWESOME reply…!!!

  • 16. amrita  |  February 6, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    hahaha! thank you for kicking smitha ji’s ass 🙂 women like her make my blood boil!

  • 17. Solilo  |  February 6, 2009 at 9:24 pm

    I read that comment here and now your response I say good job!

    This is exactly the way it should have been retorted. What a bigoted thinking some people and surprisingly a woman here have. No wonder in most cases the victims are forced to apologize because not only men but some women too think that it is their right to moral police other women.

  • 18. DewdropDream  |  February 7, 2009 at 1:38 am

    Still working on that post. But you;ve been tagged for now. Please drop by mine for details!

  • 19. roop  |  February 8, 2009 at 4:17 pm

    “I am proud that the Indian family system is a success primarily because of Indian women and our sacrifices and the values we impart to our children.”

    with women like her, who needs SRS? 🙂

  • 20. chandni  |  February 9, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    fantastic!

  • 21. Rashi  |  February 10, 2009 at 9:32 am

    * Bows down to thee*

    I’m just hoping that this woman has read you. I would like to invite her for a chat with my 73-yr old grandmother who is MUCH more progressive than her.

    Yes, she is worried about my “deterioration” because I don’t wear salwar kameez anymore. But she will NEVER say dont wear jeans. She advices me to marry some1 ONLY after dating him for atleast 2 years if not more. She wore sleeve-less blouses for her saris in her younger days and was considered a rebel for letting her daughter (and my mother) wear jeans and roam about.

    These men know what they are doing is wrong i.e they know that it is baseless and hence the use of power and more importantly culture. What culture may I ask? The same culture that once believed in Sati? Should be revive that too? After not following that is against the “culture” too, isn’t it?

    Protectors of culture, it seems… !!!

  • 22. Sushi  |  February 19, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    Followed your post from greatbong…..great come back!
    I hope the lady read your post…and I’ll be happy if it put an iota of sense in her head.
    Ive been arguing the media angle too. They should be held accountable in some way. I just don’t get it when media houses like ndtv claim the world would not have witnessed this horrific incident had they not filmed it. Isn’t it their moral responsibility to inform the authorities and make sure the incident did not occur in the first place?

  • 23. Thought Bubbles  |  February 20, 2009 at 12:28 pm

    Bravo! What a passionate and befitting reply to all the “Smithas” out there. Oh, and the ‘sperm donor’ bit was a killer!

  • 24. Inexplicably  |  March 29, 2009 at 5:13 pm

    WHOA ! More power to you woman !!

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